Ivan Franzolim (photo), born in a Spiritist family in Brazil’s largest city, São Paulo, is the author of many books and a well-known public speaker. He is a senior member of the Association of Disseminators of Spiritism in São Paulo. In this interview, he talks about the Spiritist phenomena known as materialisation and the challenges faced by most groups to understand and make the most

How did you become interested in materialisations? 

It probably began when I first took part in a meeting with materialisations at the Spiritist Centre Padre Zabeu, in 1980, and ready about the medium, Carmine Mirabelli (1899-1951), who lived in the Tucuruvi area of São Paulo. I notice the phenomena were used merely as an attraction in their programme. Everyone was there to see a spirit in the matter, levitating, and also objects moving across the room. No one was at the least interested in finding out how it all happened, or what ectoplasm was. 

What is the main object of your research? 

I was very enthusiastic in the beginning, trying to check the phenomena against the Spiritist teachings. I was trying to find gaps and propose alternatives. I soon realised my objectives were unrealistic. To achieve them I would need to find a Spiritist Group willing to accept to gather for meeting solely with the purpose of research, and that proved impossible.  

What methodology and criteria do you use? 

Field research. I find the Spiritist Centres, visit them, take part in their meetings, check their minutes and interview mediums and those in charge. I try to find fact and patterns.  

What are the main results already on your records? 

I researched six groups, all of them in São Paulo, looking at all the material available, including the notes from more than 1,000 meetings, to check the type of phenomena registered, the way the meetings were conducted etc. I found out that the meetings had an excessive religious (in the old-fashioned sense of the word) focus, which distorted the facts and even the perceptions of those attending: 

What was the reaction to your research among those groups? 

The mediums and directors were reluctant to see me from the beginning. They were very suspicious and failed to answer all the questions. Their main concern was trying to prove that there was no fraud on their part. But people in those groups began attributing anything to the action of Spirits, even a storm or strong wind. I also could not get any information from the Spiritist Federation on those groups. All they told me is that Spiritism these days focuses on study and charity, not on such phenomena. 

What was the most interesting aspect of the whole research, in your view? 

That type of mediumship cannot have come up by chance. It must be part of the planning for this incarnation of that particular medium and the community where he is working. If a medium knocks on the door of a Spiritist Centre saying he can do materialisations, probably those in charge of the group will not know what to do with his mediumship. Or even worse, they might make the wrong use of it, which is what I experienced in most groups I visited for my research. If there is mediumship, there is a reason for it. The medium and the Spiritist Centre must be able to apply it in a useful manner, encouraging study and research as well as the prospects it offers for healing.  

What about the spirits who appeared at the meetings to be materialised? 

They usually had strong signs of religiosity, often very close to Catholicism. Without the theoretical backing and rigour, they made themselves available even to celebrate weddings and baptisms. The directors of some of those groups told me how pleased they were that the spirit of a certain priest or even Pope celebrated their daughter’s wedding or baptized a granddaughter. Those spirits acted like that only in the groups that complied with such behaviour. 

Tell us about an interesting fact you have seen during your research. 

Such phenomena take place in the dark, and the Spirits use only a red light that is switched on every now and again. Despite my healthy scepticism, I must say some of the phenomena I witnessed were amazing. I have seen luminous materialisation, when the ectoplasm radiates a very gentle light, similar to fluorescent light; I have seen two Spirits materialising simultaneously with only one medium in trance; I have seen a guitar going through the cage where the medium was; I have seen flowers following at the same time on the laps of men and women. 

Is there anything else you would like to add? 

I would like to say that those in charge of the Spiritst Federations in Brazil must make a concerted effort to guide Spiritist Centres in order to make the best use of the types of mediumship that come to them. If you have any information about groups you know and want to share it with me, please email me on franzolim@gmail.com.